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colour combos - is this too much???
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5725		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  vachterm [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:54 pm ]
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Hi All,
time off from university is only well spent if it is spent building guitars ;)
this is an OM shaped thingy i m working on.
pretty much all OLF wood - bruce dickey's bocote for B&S, Doc.Luigi's beraclaw top, and "colonial" steve's carp.spruce bracewood and soon to be hond.mah neck.
the whole thing will be bound in cocobolo, and i was toying with the idea of using some "intense" cocobolo for the bridge and FB.
its not the "functionality" that concerns me but the looks...i m having mixed feeling about the colourfulness of the guitar...one day i wake up thinking "yeah thats soooooo cool!" and the other its like "maaaaaaaan...thats just plain silly..aspecially with those black/white/red/white/black purflings..."



opinions please!

thanks,
Udi.



vachterm38795.169212963
Author:  Kim [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:58 pm ]
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My HONEST opinion, the fretboard and bridge are very nice but are to loud for that guitar. Maybe they should go on your next. I would try and aim for a better match with the colour tones of the bocote, say some darker ziricote or just stick with ebony with a bit of white figure running through it, just my 2c.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:53 pm ]
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HI UDI, i FIRT agreed with Kim, THEN , i thought WOW, that's a mighty big bridge ya got on there!!! Jusst kiddin! I don't know, i think what i would do is this, cut your bridge blank to size first and recheck because right now, the size of your blanks pieces are distorting the conception, some have built Fretboards and bridges with this kind of wood before and their guitar looked just awesome! My Canadian Tire $0.02 cents
Author:  Pwoolson [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:43 pm ]
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UDI, if it were me, I'd hold off and use something plain like ebony on this one. I think you'll take away from the back/sides with something loud like that.
Tell me, how the heck did you cut that rosette? That's the coolest thing I've seen today. Very nice!
Author:  Grant Goltz [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:05 am ]
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Might look a bit bright now, but remember that the cocobolo will darken a lot. That will change the look quite a bit from what it is now.

Grant
Author:  Bobc [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:13 am ]
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How about bocote?
Author:  Kim [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:24 am ]
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From what I have seen in the past, if anyone knows their wood it is Grant Goltz and I would never argue the point with him regarding timber selection. If you take a look at his latest masterpiece you will be left gob smacked and in no doubt what so ever why I make that statement. But if you are unsure about this combination remember, black is neutral so it does go with anything, but darkened up, I guess the coco will work fine to.

Cheers

Kimlarkim38795.3510185185
Author:  vachterm [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:30 am ]
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soooooo ebony it is.
Paul, 1st i m not sure if you have seen my "contribution" to the thank you paul thread, but i got your clamps, and they proved very helpful while bracing this guitar.

for the rosette, i drew the soundhole onto a piece of mdf, drew inner and outer Diameters for the bocote inlays, divided the circle into 4 "pizza slices", found some large enough bocote off cuts...anchored(?) them into place on the mdf board using double sides tape, and using a circle cutter i got from stew-mac a couple of years ago cut them into shape.
used the same set up for the sounboard routing,
final fitting and truing of rounded edges was done with an exacto knife.
hope i was clear enough, and if i wasnt let me know, ill take some pics of how i did it.

Udi.
Author:  vachterm [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:53 am ]
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yep..i know cocbolo changes color...i m binding the body with some coco that Grant sent me over a year ago(and i m still waiting on the bill-did you get my PMs over at the other forum?), and it was red when i got it, purple when lightly sanded it and it is now "dirty brown" if i may invent this new color ;)

i was thinking bocote, but my impression is that it wouldnnt be as wear resistant as i imagine a FB should be.

Bruce(and everybody else), if i do go with Ebony for the bridge ill probably do some laminating so that the ebony bridge will be seated on top of a bocote base...
that might be even cooler than a wild cocobolo bridge...mmm...
heck, thats the reason why i needed these offcuts(from Bruce) in the first place.

keep the ideas coming..
Author:  Bobc [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:54 am ]
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Here's one in ebony and bocote I made a while back.
Author:  vachterm [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:20 am ]
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i knew id seen a bocote/ebony laminated bridge before!
thanks bob.
my idea is a bit different...ill be at the workshop later on so ill take a pic of my bridge shape and so ill do a better job explaining what i m thinking of doing.

Udi.
Author:  burbank [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:34 am ]
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Udi,

IMHO, the elegance of that rosette would best be served by more plain bridge and fb. Be sure to post pics when it's done!
Author:  Todd Rose [ Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:17 am ]
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I like that bridge, Bob! Your giving me ideas...

I also like your funky rosette, Udi!

I think the ebony fretboard and ebony/bocote bridge will look great on this guitar.
Author:  vachterm [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:53 am ]
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O.K,
i made the bridge today.
its my usual shape, inspired by Kevin Ryan's "parlor" guitars(Abbey?)
its a breeze to make and i just love the way it looks on any guitar!
so this time ,bottom layer is a scrap piece of bocote.
my opinion? looks great!! i love it!
took some pics from different angles, also was playing with the lighting, and postioned the guitar on a small "presentation" table...right below a light bulb...
i think if my mom will see this one shell approve and allow that i just leave the guitar as it is in its a place in the middle of the living room...

tell me what you think guys and gals.







vachterm38799.781412037
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:17 am ]
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Interesting shape Udi, somewhat square but very original, kind of Martinesque and art deco at the same time, very cool!
Author:  vachterm [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:44 am ]
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thanks Serge!
you kind words of encouragement(sp.?) make my habit of posting pics at 01:20 a.m Israel time{(when i gotta be at university for modern physics class        (4.5 hours long!) in less than 7 hours) } all worth while ;)

o.k...its bed time!

Udi.
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:46 pm ]
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Udi,

A very unique and elegant solution!

There is a bit of a fight going on in my head: the right side of my brain just likes it, and sees it as a complimentary element with the cool rosette. The left side of my brain is trying to visualize vibrating wood vs. all those square corners.

There are so many bridge shapes out there that don't "look" like they would work sonically, but somehow they do. In this case, I'm reminding myself that the ends of marimba bars are pretty much square, and they sure vibrate just fine.

My next thought was that finishes, especially spray finishes, do not work well with 90° angles, but then I realized you'll probably just polish the bridge and not use any finish on it.

So there, the fight is over, the bridge wins!

Dennis
Author:  John Mayes [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:11 pm ]
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heck with it! Make it loud! I'm building a Soprano uke that is african
blackwood and bound in curly pink ivory.

Also a Brazilian soprano that is bound in purpleheart.

Sometimes gaudy and loud are awesome!
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:00 pm ]
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I dunno if Udi is here, anyone knows what he meant by (sp.?} please, i've seen it used a couple of times and wondered what it was used for? Thanks

Serge
Author:  old man [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:22 pm ]
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Hi, Serge
That just means that he isn't sure if the preceding word was spelled correctly.

Ron
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:13 pm ]
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thanks Ron!
Author:  vachterm [ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:02 am ]
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Dennis,
there has been a rather long and elaborate discussion about bridges and all things related.
while i m still far away from going deep into sound wave theories and physics, i believe a light-weight, well fitted bridge will do just fine, regardless of the number of square corners it has.
AS Serge mantioned, there's a martinesque feeling to the bridge, which is true since it party evolved while doing a pyramid bridge...square and pointy too.
I beleiev Kevin Ryans Abbey bridge is almost identical to mine, and the forums own Mario Proulx is pretty "edgy" too.
many classical bridges are rectangle shaped, with some sharp edges too.
ive never done comparisons or swppaed bridges on a single guitar but i doubt that I could tell the difference.

Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:16 pm ]
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I know Udi, I've somehow gotten it in my head that the shape of a piece of wood will affect the waveform of the vibrating sound wave. That's why I have to splash cold water on my face and think about things like marimba bars, and your good example, the pyramid bridge.

I know that I have read other luthier's theories that sharp angles will adversely affect (truncate) sound waves, but I have no idea if they also howl at the moon and talk to themselves on street corners.

From the perspective of the practical experience I have had in playing a variety of guitars, and not by any luthier's knowledge, it sure seems like there is a big "sweet spot" in guitar construction and engineering that allows a variety of shapes, sizes, construction techniques, and materials to all produce great sounding instruments. Noting that, a luthier could probably make some pretty radical changes to "standard" designs (far beyond what you're doing with your bridge) and still end up with a great instrument. So, go for it! And tell us what you think of the sound of this one when she sings!

Dennis
Author:  vachterm [ Sat Mar 25, 2006 1:07 am ]
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Dennis,
your "ANGELINA" is pretty unique in its shape too.
hows that one going along?
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:24 am ]
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[QUOTE=vachterm] Dennis,
your "ANGELINA" is pretty unique in its shape too.
hows that one going along? [/QUOTE]
Hi Udi,

On Tuesday, I can start back up on it part time. I have been extremely busy with programming, probably as much as you in your school work!

Take care,

Dennis
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